Podland News

Hello to Spotify's new curation and moderation policies. Goodbye to Spotify's Greenroom creator fund and Facebook's podcasts.

April 21, 2022 James Cridland & Sam Sethi Season 1 Episode 71
Podland News
Hello to Spotify's new curation and moderation policies. Goodbye to Spotify's Greenroom creator fund and Facebook's podcasts.
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Sponsor

  • Buzzsprout - last week, 3,684 people started a podcast with Buzzsprout 

Notes & Links: 

1. Spotify Selling Vapourware Again!?

2. Gaming the Spotify Algorithm?

3.  Spotify Moderation ?

  • Spotify has quietly rolled-out a new misinformation policy that says it may hide shows, or in their words “restrict content’s discoverability”. NiemanLab has discovered the company’s new rules, which Spotify have yet to announce: and nor have they added them to their public Platform Rules page.

  • The Brookings Institution has written a new document that highlights current platform policies, describes how Spotify and Apple allow listeners to report shows, and suggests areas that policy-makers might focus on.

4.  Spotify Curation?

5. Goodbye Facebook Podcasts?

6. Buzzsprout YouTube Platform Specialist · Buzzsprout · Jacksonville, USA

email: comments@podland.news

James:

Welcome to Portland. The last word in podcasting news. It's Thursday, the 21st of April, 2022. I'm James Cridland, the editor of pod news.net. And

Sam:

I am Sam says

James:

he is pod. Land is sponsored by Buzzsprout podcast. Hosting made easy last week, 3,684. People started a podcast with Buzzsprout and you can too@buzzsprout.com. And if you use chapters in your podcast app, then Buzzsprout supports those. And so do we, and we also support transcripts James. We do also support transcripts

Sam:

on this week's show. What are we going to talk about? Well, let's start off with our Spotify selling more vaporware again, James, it feels, ah, in June, 2021. Spotify announced the Spotify greenroom creative on that sounded exciting. It was going to support and reward creators and the communities they build and the experiences they created. It said. But sadly, I don't think that fund ever paid out. I don't think it's now closed James. Is that the fi I

James:

think that's pretty well it, yes. So in terms of that, we saw a pod news, a email, which was being sent by, uh, Spotify and, uh, what it basically said. Yeah. We're, we're, we're, we're not doing that anymore. Um, I've got, I've got a statement here from Spotify. The creative fund program is evolving along with our live audio strategy and we'll shift towards other initiatives for live creators. We look forward to sharing more in the future, says somebody at Spotify to me. Um, so, uh, yes, and I did a little bit of digging to discover that the website, um, was very good at being quietly changed to change when this fund would launch. And it seems that it has never had. Launched it all. Um, Spotify of course, has quite a track record of doing this sort of thing. Isn't it,

Sam:

uh, bands that are never actually pushed or going live to podcasts that will, or won't, uh, be created. Um, I think. Neither of us would have a problem with any of this, if it wasn't for the fact that this affects a publicly listed company share price. And it seems the Spotify fund for creative fund, uh, also has shaped, affected the share

James:

price as well. James. Yeah, I mean, I took a look on launch day, um, in the middle of June last year and Spotify, you know, the announcement of the greenroom creator fund and the app allowed Spotify to outperform them. Um, and added around $60 million to its market capitalization. You kind of look at that and you go, is there a strategy there, which is essentially, we're just going to announce stuff that we have no plans in doing, or, uh, you know, and, and isn't that misleading the market. And if that is misleading the market and there isn't that illegal, or is it just that. Uh, you know, they have changed their mind and they were going to launch it and now they're not going to launch it. Um, maybe that's because Spotify green room, you know, it hasn't been an incredible success. Um, just like a clubhouse or fireside mark Cuban's Farside uh, so perhaps, um, you know, the plan is that they just changed their mind afterwards, but it's, um, you know, they do have a track record of announcing things and they're not actually following through anyone,

Sam:

seen the Spotify HD. Audio. I'd love to see that

James:

one. Yes. Spotify Hi-Fi yes. I don't think that that, that has happened yet. Uh, yeah. And there are various other things as well. And I think it, you know, it's, it's, um, it's one thing I think, to have plans in the future. It's another thing to, you know, uh, Uh, send emails out and do big announcements and everything else. You know, I mean, I, I got the email at, um, 11 o'clock in the evening, um, or one June day, uh, basically telling me, uh, oh yes, you know, we're going, we're going to be doing this. And we're going to be doing this live, create a fund and creators can sign up for more information and everything else. And so of course, you know, the PR company, very keen that I covered all of this stuff and, uh, and that's fine. You know, you kind of have to launch it though, don't you? Uh,

Sam:

yeah. Put your money where your mouth is. That's what I say. Usually a good plan. Yeah. Now Spotify are also endangered being manipulated the other way. Maybe they manipulated the market, but it seems that. Brazilian artists and Nita's involved has worked out how to manipulate Spotify algorithms. She's now the new global number one. I mean, it might've been for about a nanosecond, but she was number one across the globe. Uh, and yeah, she did that by giving instructions to her. Well, I guess her fans, how to inflate the streaming numbers so that they could actually gain the system. Yeah,

James:

exactly. So it's, it's quite, it's quite cool, you know, and he says fans were basically sharing information about, you know, don't just play that track on repeat, because if you do Spotify, doesn't count it as a stream. They think it's a bot. So you need to go and create a playlist with different tracks. All of this information as to how, um, the Spotify algorithm works. Um, other people have done it as well, but, uh, interesting to see, um, and he says, uh, fans, you know, very brazenly, uh, doing it. Anita has said. Uh, that she was shocked by, uh, becoming number one and

Sam:

number one, sorry.

James:

And it drops a second in the chart by the end of the weekend. And a week later it was a fifth position and blah, blah, blah. Uh, so yeah, you know, interesting to see, I'm not necessarily saying, and I don't think anybody's saying that Anita. I was doing this. Um, it may just have been, you know, um, excited fans who have worked out how to manipulate Spotify, but it's always interesting to see how that kind of stuff works.

Sam:

Yeah. If you want to go and see it's a separate website called charts.spotify.com and it gives you the global as well as the country-specific charts. Every track. It's quite an interesting site. Most people don't know about it. Yeah.

James:

Yeah.

Sam:

Now Spotify again, still in the news, James, um, a bit of Spotify moderation. Um, first and foremost, I think you've found that Spotify has quietly rolled out a new misinformation policy that says it may hide shows or in their words, restrict content discoverability. Tell me more.

James:

Yeah, this was a piece by Joshua Benton in Neiman's. And, you know, really interesting piece where Joshua had actually done some proper, um, techie, uh, viewing of the source code of Spotify to discover what these new rules are, which, um, uh, good for him, uh, in doing that. Um, but, uh, yeah, it's um, a new rule. Um, which is talking about restricting contents discoverability. Uh, so when content comes close to the line, but doesn't meet the threshold of removal under their platform rules, they may take steps to restrict and limit its reach. So to basically hide it from searches. And things like that. So really interesting, uh, piece and some good work from Joshua Benton. There

Sam:

is this actually live or is this something that they going to be doing?

James:

So this is something that is live in certain bits of the Spotify website. It's not yet live in the big platform rules that you see linked from all over the place as a general rule. They don't necessarily comment on this sort of thing. Um, probably doesn't change what the. Rules are, to be honest, it's just basically saying that we might hide some, some staff if, uh, if it's a bit too. To the line, but you know, again, interesting seeing that Spotify are making changes.

Sam:

Yeah. Well, I only say that because, you know, we have in the past talked about, oh God, we're going to get 'em out in Curry. Giving us grief. Now we have talked about in the past, uh, sites should be moderating content. If the content itself is like Joe Rogan did in the past misinforming, or if it's actually hate speech, Now we, we also interviewed in the past, somebody called Valerie virtue after from the Brookings Institute. And she's also written a new document, uh, talking about how platforms and their policies, uh, should be, I guess, restricting content, uh, and their discoverability, which is what it looks like. Spotify is quietly doing here. Um, she said a great reckoning has arrived for content moderation in podcasts. What speech should be permitted and what speech should be shared. She says, and what principals should inform those decisions. Uh, I guess it's time for the platforms to step up. Did you have a full read of that document? Yeah. I mean,

James:

it's an interesting read. Part of it is basically explaining what podcast platforms are currently doing in terms of content moderation and in terms of how you deal with, you know, uh, reporting, um, uh, stories and reporting, uh, episodes that aren't necessary. Real and, you know, and, um, and have the right information in them. Um, the problem is of course, what one person's right information is another person's misinformation. And so therefore, you know, you've got all of that kind of issues there. One of the things though that, um, the piece then goes on to talk about is the Santa Clara principles and the Santa Clara principles are rather lovely. What they basically are, is a list of things that companies should be reporting. If they are censoring content or taking content down or whatever. So actually the Santa Clara principles look pretty good. Um, and, um, what's the Brookings institution article is busy talking about is that w that everybody should at least, uh, report when they are hiding stuff and removing stuff and why they removed that sort of stuff anyway. And I think that that's probably absolutely fair enough if you will. A completely uncensored, uh, podcast index. Then there are those out there. The podcast index itself, uh, is one of those. Um, if you want to use something which has been, um, you know, censored or filtered in some way, then, um, uh, you know, you can use apple, you can use Spotify, you can use other ones as well. I think as long as you know, what is being censored or filter it out, then I think that that's very helpful. Yeah, I'll put, uh,

Sam:

a link to the article from the Brookings Institute in our show notes, but it was a couple of bits that I highlighted, which I thought was quite interesting as a result. The main question facing podcasting apps is not what content are hosts and publish, but instead what content to play at amplify. So I guess that's a moderation decision. Um, and the last bit I did like was it was a state. It was, it was a phrase, I suppose. Um, she called it, um, Should you share lawful content, even though it's awful content. And I quite like that, that was tickled me. Yes. Lawful, but

James:

all things lawful, but awful is quite nice. Yeah. I mean, even on podcast index, for example, there is, um, some for. Filtering going on. If you do a search for particular podcasts, then particular podcasts are highlighted as number one in particular podcasts. Aren't. And that is a form of filtering. That's a form of someone telling the search engine what to prioritize and what not to prioritize. Uh, if you go to the podcast index and you do a search for pod news, much to my irritation, there's a German website that hasn't published a new episode in 15 years. But they still end up being number one and I end up being number two. I think that that's a bit weird, but that is a choice that the podcast index has made to put that particular podcast at number one and the pod news podcast, number two for a search for pod news. And there are very good reasons why it works that way. But again, you know, I, I don't think you can end up with something, which is a completely, um, anything goes blank, blank slate type of, uh, of directory, because you will always get those sorts of algorithms there. And this is what, you know, she talks about as well in this piece is, you know, if you're using YouTube, what is being promoted to you underneath the video that you are currently working on? That's very much. Um, from an algorithm and that's a very different conversation to, is something in the directory or outside it, is it being promoted as a very different conversation? So, yeah, I think that's all, that's all interesting. Hmm.

Sam:

Well, moving on, it seems the Obamas won't be listed anymore in the, uh, Spotify directory, at least not as an exclusive, uh, they're on the move, James, where they often,

James:

well, we don't know. According to Ashley Carmen at Bloomberg. Uh, Barack and Michelle Obama's a production company is to leave Spotify. This is actually a story that came from business insider in early February, where the Obama's were already saying at that point that they found it hard to get some of their ideas for shows accepted by Spotify management. They continue, they continue to look for a renewal partner. Um, and, and you can kind of understand to be honest, Um, where Spotify is coming from. If the story is true, if someone was to come to me and say, I've got this great idea for a podcast, I'd like, you know, X, million dollars for it, please. And it's eight episodes, then I'll be saying, do I really want an eight episode podcast? Cause they don't work very well. Eight episode podcasts. If you've got to make a podcast for me, make a podcast for me, which is every week for two years. And that that's, that's how you make a big success, not an eight episode podcast that then goes away after up to two months. So I can kind of understand Spotify is point of view there. Um, but, uh, yeah. So who will they sign work? Will they sign with Amazon? Will they sign with Sirius XM where they sign with iHeart radio? Will they sign with, um, you know, Evo terror who knows? Who knows who they can assign

Sam:

or will you be announcing them as the new members of pod

James:

news? Well, there's a thing. The pod news network, if, if Barrack is listening, I mean, normally we joke and say, you know, oh, they won't be listening and then it turns out, but they are. So it's probably the case that Barack is listening. And in which case, hello, um,

Sam:

Now the question I, uh, I wanted to ask, is it two parts, really James, on this first and foremost, um, is this showing that exclusive don't work, um, uh, and that they were just a blip in the timeline of podcasting or do exclusive, still work, you know, how. The Barrack Obama, Michelle Obama podcast driven a significant number of new subscriptions to Spotify. And if they then leave the Spotify platform, will that audience also leave Spotify? So is it a momentary blip or, you know, where do you think the exclusives sit within the world of podcasts?

James:

W, I mean, one would assume that Barack Obama wants to be, and Michelle Obama wants to be thought leaders in the world and you can't be a thought leader. If you hide your work away are under a subscription. Um, this, by the way is one of the problems that I have now linking to Ashley. Carmen's great work at Bloomberg is that I can't link to Bloomberg because Bloomberg has, um, a very, very small amount of free articles after which it just hides the entire story, but Bloomberg stories are republished all over the place. So I normally find somewhere else, but that's one of the problems here. So either you can be a thought leader and you can be. All you can be in it for the money, in which case, you know, go for exclusives because that's where you're going to get some of the money from some of the, um, podcast companies. I don't think you can be both a thought leader and someone who is earning a ton of cash.

Sam:

But I think that is what Wondery tries to do. It tries to have this sort of pseudo exclusive stroke, a wide distribution strategy. So they'll say we'll produce a great piece of content. Two weeks or wondering if you use wandery plus, but then it's going to be everywhere after two weeks. So they're trying to play both sides,

James:

I guess. Yeah. And I can see that. And I think also, you know, Barack and Michelle Obama's staff has also been doing that. Uh, it was, uh, three months exclusive on Spotify and then appeared everywhere else. Now, the question is why, um, some people tell me that. Um, it's because the Obama's were very upset about being exclusive and not available outside of the Spotify ecosystem. Um, other people tell me that the advertisers were really annoyed, that they didn't get as much coverage as they thought that they were going to get. I don't know what the answer is. Um, but I've heard both of those particular rumors. Um, but it comes back to, you know, if, if you are a thought leader, Um, then signing an exclusive contract. Isn't particularly a good plan. I mean, how about have a look at Brenae brown and have a look at the sales of her book after she moved to become an exclusive podcast or with Spotify, and you can see that that was not good business sense for a bookseller, um, you know, probably great business sense for her. You know, financially because she got a big wads of cash from Spotify, you would, you would assume, but if you're there trying to also sell books, it didn't necessarily work too well. So perhaps that's part of the thinking here. Um,

Sam:

one of the things I did note was they won't be taking their Spotify shows with them. If they do move from Spotify, uh, a new deal, uh, Spotify we'll keep the master recordings and the feed. So wherever they do, they don't own the IP to those recordings.

James:

Yeah. And I think that's, that's the typical way that a normal contract like this works, you know, you, you end up buying the IP. You don't just buy a limited use of the IP. Now, Joe Rogan is different. Joe Rogan is a licensing deal and Joe Rogan is a licensing deal fault. Um, whatever it is, three. Um, and after that one would presume that Spotify don't keep the IP because it's a licensing deal for that, for that three years. In terms of this, you know, Spotify was playing a different game here, uh, in terms of, um, whether or not they would buy the full, um, the full IP. Well,

Sam:

maybe the BBC should take

James:

note that, well, maybe the BBC should, but again, either you come at this, like a. Normal ICAST publisher. And you, um, and you just hope that you get enough listens to get enough adverts in your podcast, or you come at this, um, like a Spotify, um, podcaster and you have this great big watch of money up front. And that's lovely. But it's Spotify taking a punt on you. And I think, you know, there are good reasons why you would want to do it either way. And clearly the BBC ends up giving you a big watch of money up front, because it can't necessarily do anything, uh, anywhere else, um, to expect the BBC to. Uh, leave the IP with the, with the podcaster after giving them a big bunch of money is, you know, I don't know. I'm not sure how realistic that is.

Sam:

Well, at one place we know they won't be going is Facebook or Metta or whatever new incarnation they will be called next week. Uh, it seems Ashley Carmen has been very busy again. Uh, she says that, uh, she's had a little dig around and it seems that Facebook's lost interest in podcasting. Um, and I know you noted that, uh, I Reena lamb, who was the person who came out with all the announcements around Facebook's podcast creator program is now working on music and building a music. Product for Facebook. So, yeah. So she's even moved on. Does it, does it worry you that Facebook has gone into this market and not really delivered and moved off or, or, you know, I mean, it

James:

just seems strange that Facebook will go into the market would, would dip a toe in, because they only, um, did podcasting for the U S market. Um, They would dip a toe in and they will go, oh, well, what does this feel like? And then, you know, maybe they were scared away with the content moderation conversations that Joe Rogan had been, um, you know, scaring the rest of us with, or maybe they were scared away with something else. I don't know. Or maybe it was a, it was an issue with accessibility and they thought that that was a legal issue. Who knows why they've turned around and said no, but it does seem quite sad that a company that has 1.4. Billion visitors every day. That's how big Facebook is. That could have been amazingly big for podcasting and it's. Disappointment that all of a sudden they've gone quiet. They've um, basically not particularly interested in podcasting anymore. Um, and, uh, seemingly pulling out of that sort of thing. Um, you know, uh, I, I wonder whether part of that is, um, another, you know, Facebook obviously had, had also got their own version of green room, uh, live audio. And I wonder whether part of that was just that, that wasn't going anywhere. And so they felt that, uh, you know, uh, that they wanted to pull back from that. And we're reading a little bit too much into it in terms of podcasts. I don't know. But, um, yeah, it's just, it's just a bit sad to see Facebook not actually doing. Doing anything there and sad to see YouTube remaining a little bit quiet on their, on their plans as well.

Sam:

Yeah. I mean, we were surprised at podcast at podcast movement evolutions at Facebook, weren't there to say anything or do anything, I guess this explains it. Um, and I've always said that the way they implemented podcasting was wrong, they, they put it on a Facebook page rather than a Facebook group. Um, yeah. It never worked for me anyway. All right, moving on then James R iHeart media plans to triple the amount of branded podcasts. It creates a premium article and other one behind the wall. Um, in Adweek also gives the rates for a branded podcast with iHeart between 1 million and $2 million. According to its chief marketing officer in Gale trope. So, I guess they're doubling down on branded podcasts.

James:

Yeah, I guess they are. And I guess that makes sense if your iHeart media, you're talking to lots of advertisers, lots of brands anyway. And so actually this is the, exactly the way of leveraging the benefit that you have in your massive sales team. By focusing on producing branded podcasts, which is a hot thing right now, isn't it. So, um, you know, I mean charging between one and $2 million for a branded podcast is interesting. Um, I'm sure that we would do it for only 750,000 Sam. I'm sure we'll be fine. But I think, um, yeah, I mean, it, it kind of, it kind of almost makes sense that they would do that. Yeah.

Sam:

Well, well, let's watch this space and see how many people take it up that one to 2 million offer. James, our podcast too long, a snippet.fm is a short-form podcast network and their CEO, Tyler Russell says, uh, that yeah, he thinks that podcast should be about 20 minutes. The old story of how long should a

James:

podcast be the old story? Indeed. I think Tony Russell McCusker has gotten. Point here in terms of, um, in terms of podcasts, I think that there are quite a few podcasts which are quite long and quite flabby as you know, one of the things that I, uh, try and push for forum on this podcast is to keep it tight and, um, you know, and to respect the time of our audience as much as we possibly can. Um, and I think that, you know, He's got a point there. It's interesting that he's using, um, technology to help fix that. Uh, but he's an ex radio person and he understands the benefit of, um, of, uh, tightness and, um, you know, uh, moving on and I, and I think that's always interesting, um, the correct answer of course, to how long a podcast should be, is as long as it needs to be, but not a second longer. And that's the secret, um, yeah. That, uh, or as Valerie gala, who is a great, uh, radio and podcast, uh, trainer, uh, would end up saying there is no such thing as too long, only too boring. Uh, which is absolutely correct.

Sam:

Well, I suppose if you could have a look at your apple connect stats, it'll tell you where your audience drops off as well.

James:

Yes, indeed. Either your apple connect stats or your stats from. Podcast has oriented, um, uh, in the Google podcast manager. Yeah. There's lots of data to help you there. So check

Sam:

out snippet.fm. If you want to have a short form podcast network. Now I added this story to the script this week. James, not because, um, I think his podcast directly related. I do think there's a lesson that podcasting can learn from it. It seems that Netflix is losing subscribers for the first time in 10 years. Now, when I, when I saw that and I read the story, um, it wasn't exactly that many subscribes, they lost 200,000 subscribers, but in the big scheme of things, that's not that many, but of course it is a trend that's gone against where they've normally gone, which is growth. And I think. Uh, with Tom Webster, with the infinite dial. I know you tweeted the photo of the chart that Tom Webster posted at podcast movement. So is this just the industry of all people just saying, look. Lockdowns finished. We're going out to play and subscribe as both in podcasting and in Netflix are dropping or is there something else behind these stories? Well,

James:

I think there is a lot of change in the media landscape at the moment. And, uh, I can well see that people are waking up and going, you know what we're paying for an awful lot. We've, we've signed up to an awful lot of these paid for, uh, TV, uh, systems, uh, last year. Um, and we should cancel a few of them. Um, I can, well, see that that's, uh, that makes sense. And similarly, um, with, uh, Edison research has infinite dial data that came out in the podcast movement, um, where that showed a slight drop in the number of people who are listening to podcasts. Again, I think that that is explained away by saying that that's people going back to work, going back to school and literally not having the time, the some new data that's come out from off calm. Um, Uh, today, which is around podcast consumption and everything else. One of the questions it asks is why did you stop listening to podcasts? And the answer? Uh, the number one answer is I can't find any podcasts that interest me, but the number two answer is I don't have enough time to listen to podcasts. And I think that that's a big thing. 29% of people said that they stopped listening to podcasts because it don't have enough. Uh, again, it comes back to that previous conversation we were having about how long a podcast should be. So, um, yeah, so I think, I think, you know what we're probably seeing with Netflix, what we're probably seeing with, um, uh, the infinite dial and what I suspect that we will see with other. Bits of data over the next six months or so is we'll actually see a slight cooling in the amount of, on demand media, which is being consumed because people have more of a life again. And I think that that's probably a good thing.

Sam:

Well, Reed Hastings, the CEO of Netflix said, or it, the chairman now I think. They may be considering adding ads to the Netflix platform. He says it works for Hulu and Netflix will adopt a similar model. He's also looking at charging $3, uh, an extra fee on top to use those who share their accounts with people in other households. How are they going to track that? That will be interesting, but I clearly understand that people are just giving over their accounts to other people and they just logging in using it, consuming it and logging. So they have

James:

a problem. Yeah, I can, I could absolutely see that. Um, I think also I've found a great quote from Reed Hastings. This is back in 2018 and he was saying he sees Netflix is competition has literally anything with a screen. And he was saying back in 2018, we compete with, and we lose two fortnight much more than we do HP. Um, and so the point here is that actually, um, you know, he, he, he sees competition as, just as just being time more than more than anything else. And I, I think that, um, there's lots to learn from, for the podcast industry. One of the things that worries me about podcast companies like a cast, for example, who is they're fighting against other podcasts companies and trying to win business from the likes of Buzzsprout or blueberry or Libsyn or anybody else is that actually that that's a carnivorous activity. That's not going to help anybody. Whereas what we really want is we really need more, more of a growth plan into all of podcasting rather than, um, trying to fight. Um, in between ourselves for individual, you know, podcast, um, you know, individual podcasts companies, none of that makes sense. I think we should be growing the industry and that, and that's something that we should be focusing

Sam:

on. The subscriber growth, uh, has taken, uh, an estimated $45 billion of the value of Netflix. Uh, I think you're right James time and attention. The, uh, two limited values that, uh, you can't pay for.

James:

Yeah, indeed. And, uh, very difficult to get more of that per week. Um, you know, that's a very difficult thing.

Sam:

Now, moving on, uh, the Parcast union has ratified it's first a union contract with the writers Guild of America east. It means that pay rises for the employees as well as diversity commitments have been reached in York. Um, otherwise I think they were going to go on strike reading the article. It seems the 56 member group, uh, stuck together and pledged to strike if they didn't get what they wanted. So is this a good thing for the industry,

James:

James? I mean, I think it certainly. Yeah. Um, good to see that, um, Parcast, uh, is, um, listening to its employees a bit more and, um, doing some good things like, uh, making sure that, uh, there are, there are decent raises for those employees to bring them up to the industry standard payment, uh, which I think makes a bunch of sense. There are. Quite a few things that the union wanted and got, and some things that the union didn't, uh, get, uh, particularly around IP ownership and rights. But then of course, you know, we've just had that conversation. Um, if you're working for somebody and somebody else is taking the risk for you, then it's a little bit much to also ask, um, for the benefits. Of all of that risk too. So, uh, yeah, so I can, I can kind of, uh, see that, but, um, yeah, it's interesting now that, that now means that, um, the writers Guild of America east is both, um, is both working with the Parcast union as well. Yeah. At Gimlet media and the ringer as well. They're also working at iHeart radio as well, which, um, it should be an interesting conversation too. So lots of unionization stories going on in the U S as well. I mean, obviously Amazon is having its unionization story as well. And so, um, you know, interesting to see what comes out of that. And, uh, you know, the, the industry is, you know, historically been a very. Um, startup focused industry, which has had certain things that it wants to aim for a niche and not necessarily seeing the employee as the most important thing. And actually, you know, employees are pretty important. Uh, it turns out, I think

Sam:

if you look at what we've been talking about today, it seems that IP ownership is pretty critical now within contracts exclusive. People's time and attention. And in this case, uh, people's ownership of their, their content. Um, yeah, I think it's interesting. We'll see where the Spotify who say they won't budge on this IP ownership and derivative rights will, uh, find the union coming back for a second hit at

James:

them. Yeah, but I, I also think, you know, I mean, again, if, if you pay me a salary, Um, then, um, uh, at the end of the day, what do you pay me the salary for? You're paying me the salary to come up with ideas, which you can go away and sell. I have an interesting relationship with unions because I I'm there on one side thinking, well, you know, a lot of what they say makes an awful lot of sense, but then on the other side, a lot of what they say is. Sort of relatively unworkable when it comes to actually running a business and you know, you can't run a business, but also let your employees just run away with things that you have paid them to come up with in, in, in the time that you have paid them. Um, they can't just run away with that and take that to a competitor. That's not that that's not how you run a business. I don't really understand how that bit works. If you, if you want to do your own thing. Do your own thing. So working for the man and do your own thing. So, um, yeah, but maybe that's just because I've worked for myself for the last 13 years and, um, and I have a different, a different view on these things

Sam:

now loops in the parent company to advertise cost. Not good news. James has had it's trading in shares suspended by the sec seems the company hasn't filed financial reports for any period. Since September the 30th, 2020, the company has appointed a new CFO, uh, to try and help sort this stuff out. What's going on at Libsyn.

James:

Well, what is going on at Libsyn? I mean, we've known that this is likely to have happened for some time. Um, but, uh, Libsyn have been doing some, you know, strange old things recently, uh, in terms of their, uh, finances, there's been a complicated. Um, a conversation going on around some Chinese, um, uh, stakeholders that they have. Um, and, uh, back in February, the sec said that Libsyn had been delinquent with its financial filings. I love the STCs, uh, words. They seem to use very long words when they don't necessarily need to, but still there we are. Um, and so, you know, I mean, back in February, Libsyn was. Perhaps it'll mean that stock in the company might not be able to be traded, but the company said back then, And that it's working closely with external counsel, independent auditors and tax experts to as promptly as practicable finalize and file the outstanding exchange acts reports and any reports that become due subsequently, um, uh, Libsyn, uh, sponsoring, um, pod news in February when I reported that and, uh, listens, advertise casts, supporting pod news. When I'm now reporting about their shares being. Being suspended. And I think it's a bit of a financial theater. I don't necessarily think, um, that it's, uh, anything worse than that. Um, and I don't think there's any worry about, uh, the Libsyn, um, uh, company at all. Um, so, uh, it would just be nice, um, for Libsyn to get there. To get their accounts in order. But, you know, having said that, I, um, you know, I, I do my accounts every now and again, and I hate doing my accounts and I sure hates doing their accounts

Sam:

too, but they pay someone to do that. James has called an accountant. Yes,

James:

they do. They pay, they pay somebody and they've always had all kinds of issues because they didn't pay any VAT in Europe for a long, long time. And so that was a problem. And, you know, it's, it's just been a bit of a catalog of, of oops. Um, So hopefully the new CFO that they hired, uh, last year will, uh, help solve sort that out. He's a nice man called Jonathan Charak and, um, you know, Jonathan, uh, has, uh, worked at, um, you know, all kinds of other. Interesting companies in, in the past, including a renewable energy and a cannabis company. Um, so, uh, you know, he, he will be very, uh, well versed with, uh, how to fix all of this stuff, but it won't be an easy fix. Certainly

Sam:

be chilled out about fixing it.

James:

You go, here we go. Tell her why you bothering man. Don't know why it bothered me also renewable. Uh, telecommunications he's worked in and, um, he, he used to work as a fractional CFO. I wonder what a fractional CFO is. That's a really interesting part time. Is that what it is? Is that what it means? Why don't they just say part time instead of. None of this. None of this makes any sense. It's like, it's like, um, the SCCs phrasing, uh, actually ended up saying, I will quote it because this is, this is the sec. It is hereby ordered that pursuant to section 12 J if the exchange act the registration of each class of respondents, securities, registered pursuant to exchange act, section 12, B and hereby is revoked. I mean, you know what, what, what's, what's wrong with just using English. You know, normal English rather than all of this silly nonsense. But anyway, I don't

Sam:

get paid as much for, for, unless it's silly English. You must know that lots of what lawyers do.

James:

I think you're right, right. Yes. Let's, let's uh, talking about, uh, being, being quick and. And, uh, and everything else. Let's move on to some quick things that we've got here. Yeah. A little

Sam:

bit of quick news that you've been writing about. I thought we'd just highlight plink is a service that makes smart podcast links to shows and episodes is turned three, says it's found a Scott Matheson. In fact, uh, you said that pod news

James:

uses it. Yes. Potty news has a page on there and it's a very good little service. Um, it helps you find podcasts on a variety of different places. Uh, so congratulations to that. That sounds profitables brown Barletta took a deep dive into a Dory labs. Now Dory labs was at podcast movement evolutions. There are clever piece of new technology. Which makes getting audio content into YouTube a much more simple and engaging experience. It basically adds tons of, uh, related, um, pictures, uh, in there as well. So, uh, interesting to take a peak at that if you want to. I love Brian Barnett is deep dives, cause it's really good to be able to actually see inside a product, um, and understand what it does. So it's a good piece of work that.

Sam:

Ted audio collective has signed with Supercars to offer paid subscriptions for Ted talks. Bailey.

James:

Yes, they have, um, a super cast is interesting. It's one of the only third-party companies that enables you to work in apple podcasts as well as in Spotify and in Google podcasts. It's basically one of those subscription platforms that works everywhere. The other one I think is supporting cast. I don't think that there are any other. Third party available ones doubtless on they'll get emails, comments that potlatch.news. Um, but, um, nice to see, uh, Ted talks, daddy signing out. It's one of the very biggest podcasts. I think it's in the top five. Um, so it'll be interesting to see how that works, but congratulations to a super cast, which I think is a good Canadian company. I think it's out of Vancouver or Victoria. Anyway, congratulations to them. Uh, in getting, uh, the Ted audio collective, uh, signed up also congratulations to captivate. Who've done a deal with the hospital broadcasting association who have launched their own podcast hosting network. Clever and smart idea. Actually, they've got loads of radio station members for the hospital broadcasting association. So if you're not from the UK, lots of hospitals have their own radio stations because it's actually proven that, um, uh, radio actually makes you feel better. And so, uh, it's also a very good training ground for aspiring broadcasters. Um, and so the hospital broadcasting association has basically done a deal with, uh, captivate where. Um, if you're a member of the broadcasting association, then you can add your shows to their platform, which is a very good, good thing at no additional charge. You obviously pay to be a member of the HPA. And so that's a good thing. So many congratulations to both captivate too. I used to be a advisor for, and, uh, the HPA who I was once I was, once I'm working for a hospital radio station, a long, long, long time. What hospital was that? James? It was a Jews Bree. And, uh, it was HWD which, uh, is celebrating its 70th birthday this month. So happy birthday HWD

Sam:

and yes. Mrs. Miggins in bed five. I love to you.

James:

Yes, exactly. Ward seven. You know, here's some Jim Reeves for you. Yes, exactly. Um, Hey, I've got, I've got a toy. I've got a toy. Look, can you, can you see, can you see what I've got here? I've got this beautiful, beautiful, uh, wireless mouse. So I bought a wireless mouse because I needed, um, I needed a new mouse basically, cause my other mouse was not very good. And if I use a touch pad for a long, long time, then I get RSI. I don't want that kids. Um, so I ended up buying a it's. M six 50 L wireless mouse. It's $40, uh, in the U S um, but the reason why I bought it is that it's got silent buttons, so I can actually click and you won't hear the clicks, so that's a good start. Cause you know, You know, mice anomaly incredibly loud. So that's pretty good. The other thing about it, apart from your nose, Bluetooth and, and, and all of that stuff. But the other thing about it is, is that it's got two additional buttons and you can program the additional buttons depending on what app you're using. So now in Hindenburg, I can now, uh, split and cut and all of that automatically from the little buttons on the side, which I've managed to be able to work to a program. So it's a really good thing. And it struck me that actually a silent mouse with some extra buttons is a, is a thing to write about. So I did, I only wish I got

Sam:

it free, but my question was I nearly went in, died in, into Bali Bollywood last night for the radio station. And then I stopped myself when I went, hang on a minute. Can't you just turn the click sound off of all mice it's doesn't the big killer featured near silent buttons actually work on every mouse. No. Oh

James:

no, it doesn't at all. No, it's it's um, you know it, hang on a minute. Let me, let, let me show you. Here is a cheap mouse that came with my daughter's raspberry pie. And when you click it, you get this horrible noise, right. And then when you click this, and this is where I want to make sure that I'm not going to stop it from recording or anything, when you click this, can you hear that? Yeah.

Sam:

Yeah. He is actually pressing a mouse button people. Yes.

James:

Yeah. So you see, um, so no, it's, it's um, it's just part and parcel of a cheap, crappy, um, uh, mouse is, is that it's got clicky buttons, whereas this is still a cheap mouse. It's not necessarily crappy. Um, but it doesn't have those horrible clicky buttons. So no, it's a special. Yeah, I will go

Sam:

back to Amazon and complete my order. Then

James:

I'll give you an affiliate code, no word. Yeah. I

Sam:

do make a few patties out of it. Put that in the beer fund. Um, uh, and last but not least, um, One of the job things are that appeared on pod news. Uh, I don't normally look at the job things cause I've got low. Me too. But, um, so you say boss next week, who knows what I'll be doing then? Um, Buzzsprout um, are looking for a YouTube platform specialist, Albany and Kevin, what are you up to?

James:

Yes. Well, what are you up to good spot? Cause I hadn't spotted that, uh, cause uh, I don't look at the job listings either, because again, why would I need to, um, but good spot. So, uh, yes, it's listed@podjobs.net at the moment. It's a YouTube platform specialist. Now I thought. Oh, maybe they know something about YouTube podcast ambitions, and maybe they're wanting somebody to work with YouTube, for podcasts, um, et cetera, et cetera. Now it's not bad. It's making the Buzzsprout YouTube channel better. So basically it's a job around marketing content creation and community, uh, management. Uh, you can work remotely. Um, I'm suspecting within the U S only, but you can work remotely at the salary is $70,000, which sounds nice. Does not help you also get healthy. You also get health insurance, um, uh, which must be an exciting thing for an American, um, and a 401k and you get paid timely. Uh, I'll go to American job ads. Brilliant. Paid time off. Yeah. Um, and you also get, it says here, lots of podcasting equipment say, must get sent an awful lot for review. Um, yeah. So if you are somebody that completely understands YouTube and, um, you can produce, you know, thumbnails and everything else, you understand how the YouTube algorithm works. You have experience running a YouTube channel, then hop to. Uh, it's pod jobs.net. You've got until, uh, may the 10th, uh, to get your, um, your information in. And what it also says is that, uh, it's a remote first position. Um, but, uh, there's one, uh, yearly retreat that you will get to go to. And also. Optional Christmas party in Florida every year. So, so, uh, yeah, and up to two podcasts conferences each year as needed. So yeah, I know it looks a good gig. I'll be quite, um, quite, uh, quite taken with it.

Sam:

I was going to say, they're very nice people. They sponsor us as well. So yeah. What, what

James:

else could we say? And you get 15 days holiday. 1550. I'm just saying this is a European where we get 25 normally, but 15, there you go.

Sam:

And use them all at once now. A tech corridor.

James:

No, but make sure, but make sure that you use them because they are non accumulator. You'd also said surely. Oh dear. Anyway, let's stop taking the Mickey out of the Americans. Yeah. Uh, and, uh, yes, let's, uh, um, uh, you, you want to talk about web Southern pop pink? Not

Sam:

particularly, but I just thought, I'd say something you'd take quarter this week. Um, but yes, you wrote about it. So I thought I'd mentioned it. Um, are you website, pod pinging and updating your shows will, may be one to when you delete your RSS feed, uh, also downstream remind people to pod ping them as well to remind them that the. Should be removed from the directory. Um, but I generally think most people when they stop podcasting, that's the last thing they're thinking

James:

about Derek. Yeah, no, of course. And I think this is really aimed at, um, you know, people like upon sprout who are already pod pinging and web subbing and all of that kind of stuff. Uh, that, uh, when they say goodbye to a customer, which I, I I'm guessing very rarely happens. Uh, but when they are saying goodbye to a customer, um, then just, um, giving a little pod ping, uh, when that RSS feed goes away, just means that people like the podcast index know that that RSS feed has gone away. Um, which is a good thing, cause it's always, um, it's always good to, um, uh, give a hint that, uh, podcasts should be. Deleted from the system.

Sam:

I'll send that over to Michelle and Barack Obama when they leave Spotify. See if they'll let

James:

them know. Now. Now, uh, now I tell you, I tell you what it is time for. Oh. It's time for the boost boost boost boost boost the Graham corner. Yes. It's time for booster Graham corner. It's my favorite time, apparently. So you say, but it's very exciting to see a new. Booster. Uh, so, uh, thank you very much, mark Gauston, uh, who is host of the wood fired oven podcast? There's a podcast for everything, even a podcast about wood-fired ovens.

Sam:

Welcome

James:

to the wood-fired oven podcast, where I take a deep dive into the. Recipes and history of wood-fired oven cooking. And mark Gauston says, love what you're doing, guys. New listener, learning a lot from your deep dives. Keep up the great work. Cheers, mark. Well, cheers, mark. Thank you. 1500 sites from customatic mark. Thank you so much. Really good to see new people hitting that boost button. If you've got a boost button and you should hold it down and send us a message, that'd be really nice. Uh, we got something from a car in my, um, my Brisbane buddy. It looks like a Levi's

Sam:

boost. 5

James:

0 1. Oh, nice. I see what you've done there

Sam:

only you and I will get that reference for that's fine. We'll move on. Re transcripts versus closed captions are people with auditory issues actually asking for transcripts or for captions. As I put my vids on YouTube, which has closed captions, is there any additional benefit from them having the full text as well? Because I don't want them reading my podcast. I want them to listen and watch it. So I guess what Karen is saying is. Should transcripts being included or is there a demand for transcripts?

James:

Well, I think the answer to that is, um, uh, is that, uh, we are not the right person to ask because, uh, we do not have auditory issues. Um, but my understanding from those people who I have talked to is that close captions are good in certain situations. And that transcripts are good for certain other ones. And certainly transcripts are very helpful for things like, um, Google and, uh, you know, SEO and all of that kind of stuff. So whether you don't want people reading your podcast, I think that's a different conversation. Um, but I think certainly both transcripts and closed captions can be used. Uh, it's my own personal view, but, uh, if you have a better view, then I would love to hear it as well. Um, uh, either hit the boost button and tell us, or comments@portland.news. Uh, the pod

Sam:

father has sent us 5,000 sites. He said, uh, consider using the podcast standard instead of namespace, not sure what that's in reference.

James:

Uh, yes, I think it's, um, it's us talking about the podcast, namespace a loss, and he wants people to use the phrase podcast standard. I will run a mile before I use the word standard because standards to me mean lots of meetings and lots of tedious, boring documents and, and everything else. And, uh, said, no, I'm going to carry on using namespace, but thank you for your point too. Inventor of this medium. Um, I, you know, I think we need to be very careful when we start talking about standards and, uh, talking about, uh, all of that kind of stuff. I think that, uh, the podcast namespace is a great thing that, uh, that, uh, the podcast index, uh, team. Uh, and personally I think that there's nothing wrong with it. Um, but, uh, yeah, there we go.

Sam:

Kevin Finn, uh, from Buzzsprout centers 3, 6, 8, 6. That's a I'm sure that has a reference. It does because that's the,

James:

I'll tell, I'll tell you what that reference was. The number of new podcasts that was on Buzzsprout last week.

Sam:

I, of course I forgot. Look forward to seeing you both in London for the bulk I'll show yet getting look forward to meeting up with you in London. Um, we'll, we'll set you take you out for some, a warm brown, uh, wet, uh, beer. So there you go.

James:

Yes. It's not warm. It's just cellar temperature. It's not, so it's just not refrigerated. I get very upset. Um, people say that I thank you, Neil, who I think is also a new. Booster, uh, who sent us three sets. Thanks, Neil. Uh, from a fountain saying awesome. Uh, then centers, another three sets saying awesome. Then sent us another three sat saying awesome. But with only, oh, look, he's, he's put a different amount of exclamation mark. Yeah, all the way through. Wow. This is complicated. Isn't it. Anyway, thank you for the, for the 12 sets, Neil, um, and for your four messages of awesome into the fountain app, um, genuinely that's, uh, that's very good of you. Um, and, uh, Good to hear that you think that something is awesome or got your hot we're good. Good.

Sam:

Now, uh, event quarter, um, the podcast show, which we keep talking about in London, or may the 25th is a fast approaching. Um, if you want, you can still get a discount promo code using pod news, which will save you 20% off. A limited number of day passes. Uh, James and I will be there. Um, we look forward to meeting many, many of you, if you are making it across the water from around the world, or if you just in the UK and coming into LA.

James:

Yes, indeed. And podcast movement. 2022 is happening in Dallas. In Texas. I should be there assuming that I buy the tickets. Um, and, uh, you're, you're just going on holiday aren't you instead, but that's. Yeah, you're

Sam:

allowed to go back to America. I'm going to go to Italy.

James:

You're allowed. You're allowed holidays. Um, may the

Sam:

fourth. Oh no, I wouldn't be, if I was going to bus brow, I would never enough holiday

James:

allowance. It's just because. That's nothing to do with them being plus, uh, also going on is the New Zealand podcasting summits, which is on may the 14th in Auckland, which should be quite fun. There's the outlier podcast festival happening in Austin, in Texas on may the fifth and sixth. And. Plenty more things, uh, for you to end up going to the black pod festival. Um, also in Atlanta and Georgia on the 28th of May, um, loads of other stuff. If you want to see more of those, then pod.events is where to go. So what's been happening for you this week in Portland,

Sam:

Sam been working with headliner, um, with Neil Modi and his team on hopefully a really interesting way to automate. Um, audio grams. So Niels are coming on the show next week to talk about it. But what we've been talking about since podcast movement is what Neil's team did with headliner was allowed to take the full RSS feed and push that out to your YouTube channel automatically. And we're doing that with Portland. But also you can go in there and put your RSS feed and it will automatically create using AI for clippable items that you can put two Twitter Tik TOK, Hey, maybe we'll put it on Arctic dock, channel James and other places. The problem I've got as river radio, I've got over 30 different RSS feeds now for each show. And. Thing is that all of those feeds come into my inbox because I'm the admin for that account. And of course, when you multiply that by four, and then they do that three times a week, I get about a hundred clips coming into my inbox and in the. Best effort that I could do, I will never ever be able to post all of those correctly. So we're looking at how similar to the way that they do full RSS automation, straight to YouTube, that there will be a way that I can take those clickable items and automate them. Out to my social media points. That's what I've been working

James:

on. Y yes. Imagine the email you must get from Aircast. Uh, and that reminds me that Tom Billington will also be on this show next week. He is, um, one of the people at the podcast show London. So he'll be telling us a little bit more about what to expect in London in the middle of may. So we're looking forward to that.

Sam:

So James, what has been happening for you in Podland

James:

this week? I've been having loads of chats about things that I can't talk about, which is really good. Um, some very cool technology, which we'll be able to play with when we're at the podcast show London. Cause it will be announced by them, but it won't be announced until. The very first day of podcast show London. Um, uh, and that is, uh, from Norway. That's literally all that I can tell you. Um, I'm also working on two new podcasts conferences, uh, which are happening later on, uh, this year. So that's been good. Um, and, uh, And, and also just as a, by the, by I discovered a new tool. Um, that's new to me. It's been going for a while, uh, which is all around email testing. One of the problems that I've had for a long, long time is that when you send a email to somebody who's running outlook, for example, you've no idea what it looks like. And I don't have a. A windows machine at all. And I have no idea what, um, the emails that Ponte news has been sending out look like in outlook. Um, and so either I could spend somewhere in the region of nine of 90 or a hundred dollars per month, that's us dollars, uh, on a very expensive testing tool and then have to cancel. Oh, I discovered this thing called testy.at and testy.at is, um, much the same, but it's much, much cheaper. Uh, it's about 16 quid a month and you just pay for one month and that's it. So that's been really good. And so I've been nerding out testing and playing around with the, um, uh, email templates, uh, for. Pod news. And if you're using, uh, particularly outlook, then you should see some, um, welcome changes, um, uh, happening in your email. A look at that later. And that's it for this week. If you like pod land, tell others to visit, to tell your friends on Twitter that links in Facebook or wherever

Sam:

you could also email. Ah, potlatch thought news, and you'll also find all our previous shows@interviewsoutpotluck.news.

James:

Uh, if you'd like to news, you should get pod news, the newsletters free pod news dot ness. The podcast can be found in your podcast app on your smart speaker and all the stories we've discussed on pod lands today are in the show notes. We use chapters and transcripts to our

Sam:

music is from ignite jingles, and we're hosted and sponsored by a good friend app bus bracket, listening.

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James's new mouse
A job at Buzzsprout!
Tech Corner
Boostagram Corner
Event Corner
Sam's Week Corner
James' Week Corner
End Credits Corner